E60: TOLWM + Colleen Avis x Sacred Spaces, Subtle Shifts

What if the smallest shifts could lead to the biggest transformations?

In this LIVE episode of Think Out Loud With Me, I sit down with Colleen Avis, bestselling author of the Sacred Spaces series, the 3rd volume of which hit Amazon yesterday and is a #1 BESTSELLER IN MULTIPLE CATEGORIES. When she's not leading such an impactful charge, she's an intuitive guide and space curator, and she's joined me to talk about how intentional environments shape our emotional, spiritual, and physical well-being.

Says Colleen early in our exchange, "I always say, if you have a mess under your bed, you probably have a mess in your mind. If your car is cluttered, chances are there’s clutter in your thoughts too. Our spaces—internal and external—are deeply intertwined. The power of a subtle shift is that whether you make it in your environment, your mindset, or your body, it ripples through everything."

🌀 How subtle, mindful shifts create profound change
🌀 The connection between our inner and outer spaces
🌀 Soul-level work: Big P-Purpose or little p-purpose
🌀 Why decluttering isn’t just about your home—it’s about your energy
🌀 Simple ways to create Sacred Spaces in daily life

And I open up about my own healing journey—specifically, the deeply personal work of reclaiming my womb space—which I share in a separate expert collaboration, Shaman Heart: We Are the Ones We've Been Waiting For (Chapter 26!), that is set for release on Amazon in early March.

This episode is a must-listen if you're ready to shift your space, shift your energy, and shift your life.

Connect with Colleen Avis!
🩷 Instagram @Colleen_Avis_Coaching
💙 Facebook @ColleenAvisSubtleShifts
🩵 Website colleenaviscoaching.com
💚 Email colleenavis@me.com

P.S. Brené, call us! 😉

#HealingSpaces #SubtleShifts #SacredSpaces #HealingJourney #Podcast #ThinkOutLoudWithMe #SoulSpace #HonkeyDonk #Mindset #Mindfulness #Wellbeing #WholeBodyWellbeing

Transcript

(Intro music plays)

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Natalie P.: We're going live. We're just setting up a little

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Natalie P.: action with our cameras in all directions.

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Natalie P.: Hello! Hello, everyone!

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Natalie P.: Hi! Hi! There's colleen on my live on Instagram. We're live on Facebook. Hello, everyone. This is an actual live episode of think out loud with me the podcast where curiosity leads and deep conversations, transform

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Natalie P.: we challenge ourselves to think, feel, and live more intentionally. I am Natalie Peterson. If you didn't see my name.

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Natalie P.: and today we're connecting in real time with someone truly special joining me is colleen avis. Say, Hi, sister.

(edited for clarity)

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Colleen Avis: I've never been heard that I I that I'm quiet, never, never.

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Natalie P.: It's a first.st My sound is.

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Colleen Avis: Working, at.

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Natalie P.: Working now. Woohoo! Hey, everybody!

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Natalie P.: Everything seems fine, and we're rocking and rolling, and colleen is on one screen and 4 screens, and we are just beautiful works in progress. I am,

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Natalie P.: just really tickled to be doing this with such a cool human being. Colleen is an intuitive guide, space curator and author of the transformative book. Sacred Spaces

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Natalie P.: actually available today. As a matter of fact, in its 3rd edition, Colleen is all about the power of subtle shifts, those small, mindful changes that over time lead to profound healing and clarity. So today she and I are exploring how

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Natalie P.: intentional spaces, both physical and emotional shape, our well-being, whether it's the home we live in, the energy we carry

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Natalie P.: or the spaces we create for healing. The conversation is about finding peace and balance and transformation

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Natalie P.: in the everyday. I like to say in between the lines, right, if you're here with us, live welcome. We've got a couple of platforms. Run and bear with us. Drop your thoughts and questions in the chat we want to hear from you, and if you're catching this on, replay your spirits included here. My intention I promised to share with colleen is that we all rethink how we move through the spaces in our beautifully messy lives.

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Natalie P.: our very presence just being here is a big deal. So colleen.

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Natalie P.: bada, bada, bada, bada, bada, bada.

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Natalie P.: inter fantastic music. The podcast is rolling. The trumpets are sounding, life stops for a moment, and we go live on Facebook together. We have known each other for a whopping.

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Colleen Avis: Month.

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Natalie P.: It hasn't even been that it's not been 2. But anyway,

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Colleen Avis: 8 h.

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Natalie P.: Sweet.

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Colleen Avis: It's been a crazy 48 h in my house, that's all. I gotta say.

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Natalie P.: Met her down at the post office, and we said, You know what this is. This is big.

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Colleen Avis: And I like those stamps, too.

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Natalie P.: Right? Yeah, it's back to the old. What's old is new. I was just in there the other day, and I happen to live in Loveland, where it's a very busy time of year around February 14, th right? They they stamp everything, and I happen to get some extra love at the post office unexpectedly, like the last place I would get a little extra dose of generosity, anyway. So, colleen, let's I want to get to getting

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Natalie P.: Something I love about your work is that you focus on subtle shifts.

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Colleen Avis: Hmm.

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Natalie P.: Which are the itty, bitty, tiny, almost imperceptible changes that create massive impact over time.

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Colleen Avis: Seriously.

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Natalie P.: Can you help?

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Natalie P.: Can you share what that philosophy means to you? And just why it's so powerful like, why are we here? This is your baby.

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Colleen Avis: Yeah.

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Colleen Avis: Well, I'll start by saying that I do agree. Subtle shifts create the greatest impacts.

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Colleen Avis: And I never said they were easy.

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Colleen Avis: You know.

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Colleen Avis: Like, I think sometimes we talk about making subtle shifts. And people think, Oh, yeah, if I could just get up in the morning and go for a walk, or put my feet on the grass, or say no when I want to say no versus just going along with things and agreeing with things like that's the kind of subtle shifts that

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Colleen Avis: talking about, you know whether they're in the mind or the body in the home. And and I I just want to start out by saying, I don't think they're easy. For 30 years they weren't easy for me.

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Colleen Avis: you know. It feels like, and and every time I

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Colleen Avis: was hoping to make a transformation or a change, I thought it had to be like a boil the ocean kind of thing, and that's

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Colleen Avis: you know I was like, and it contributed to the I'm not good enough they're better than me, especially with a lot of social media and people doing big, grand things, which is what you see at the end. Right? You see, the swimmer win the gold medal, you think. Wow! I'm like, you know, but they you miss the part where they were doing the

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Colleen Avis: most gold medalists were doing more than teeny, subtle shifts, but really the subtle shift of getting out of bed and going to the pool. That is quite a small shift in the grand scheme of life. And so what I've come to realize, and I know for myself is that

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Colleen Avis: transformation was less about gathering information.

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Colleen Avis: There's a lot of information. We can all gather a lot of information, and it's more about taking action on what's in alignment for what you actually want. So one you have to kind of know what you're aiming for, or what you're not aiming for, perhaps. And then what are the the small.

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Colleen Avis: powerful steps that are in alignment with that direction, you know, recognizing it might not be linear, and you might have to zig or zag or move. But

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Colleen Avis: what are the what are the small things that are actually accessible to? Do.

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Colleen Avis: you know, and I think life is so full of information and so full of everything, has to be grand and so full of comparison to others, or whatever we want to call it that if we go inside a little more and realize that there are changes that we can make for ourselves that are actually

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Colleen Avis: accessible.

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Colleen Avis: Then then then, that's really where the transformation and the powers and there's action in that.

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Colleen Avis: So that cultivation of what are the sacred spaces for you figure. Excuse me, the subtle shifts are for you, and figuring that out.

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Colleen Avis: Not always easy. But but I really do think that the subtle shifts, whether they're in the mind, the body, or in the home. I always say, if you have a mess under your bed, you probably have a mess in your mind. If you have a mess in your car, you probably also have a mess somewhere in your body. Right? We can't intertwine these things. So the power of a subtle shift is whether you make it in the mind or the body in the home. It's intertwined, it. It leaks through to all things right? So.

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Natalie P.: That's that's my!

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Colleen Avis: That's my!

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Colleen Avis: That's why. Oh, my gosh! Here we are talking about subtle shifts, philosophy really just unscripted, you know, it's accessible.

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Colleen Avis: It's accessible, and it can be one thing right? Yeah.

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Colleen Avis: a good breakfast every single day. Don't worry about anything else you do all day, and stop judging yourself for, and just do that one breakfast every day. Really? Well, really nourishing. See what happens after 30 days. Now, it's a habit. Okay, let's pick up a new subtle shift. You know I want to do 35 seconds of meditation every day. Cool. Do that for 30 days, and see right? So all of a sudden the lifestyle shifts start to change. As a result of some of the smaller things a small always gets like a bad where everything's supposed to be bigger and better, right? Like the big gulp. And yeah.

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Natalie P.: We've.

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Natalie P.: I think it's brilliant. I think you know that that the

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Natalie P.: the concept of boiling the ocean rings really like, because that's I like. That's what we are.

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Natalie P.: Our itty, bitty, shitty committee, as my my good my friend Krista Barry calls it, is sitting there telling me all the reasons. You know that I suck right? And so I boiled. I I am. If I look at all of the things that I need to do to

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Natalie P.: I'm going to use my own language right size this ship.

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Natalie P.: Then this is gonna take such a massive overhaul that I don't like. I don't even know where to begin. I like I'm out.

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Colleen Avis: Right, right.

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Natalie P.: There's so many of like I can't like. You're asking me to tap into something that I just like. I I need to keep a cork on shit. I don't need to open like, are you kidding? Where do you want me to do this?

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Natalie P.: It's filling out.

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Colleen Avis: Oh, right, right, right.

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Natalie P.: Have to be that, just like a little nudge in your own favor is

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Natalie P.: man. It can create ripples and and it's just.

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Natalie P.: and it's cons, it is. It's subtle shifts. It's not just a means to an end. It is a constant reflection, and reflecting and looking around and saying, where am I? Not? Where I'm tapping into? I'm tapping into what I'm feeling, and that wasn't bothering me just a minute ago

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Natalie P.: or a month ago.

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Colleen Avis: Yeah, I think you just said the keyword. It's how you feel

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Colleen Avis: right like the shifts aren't meant to take you to some mastery of something. They're meant to take you in the direction that says this feels more in alignment with me.

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Colleen Avis: right? Sometimes the subtle shifts, I think, can be non action.

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Colleen Avis: Right? So it's we're so bio individual, right? We're so uniquely different that to come up with those subtle shifts for each other or for oneself can be quite different. Right? What might be for me might be different for you, for me it's always self-talk. I'm always aware of my self talk.

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Colleen Avis: and to just one day say, I wish I would stop saying that I'm not good enough, or I wish I would stop saying that that person did that to me, and it hurt me, or I wish I would stop saying I'm fat, or I wish I would stop saying right, that for me would be a boil the ocean moment.

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Colleen Avis: But if I can spend my day knowing that self talk is the one thing that I well, there's many things one of the things that tend to kind of get in my way of feeling whole. If I can spend my days catching myself when I say something that doesn't feel empowering or true or supportive of myself. If I could just catch myself.

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Colleen Avis: even if I then go. Yeah, okay, I'm catching myself. And for a moment I break the pattern. But then, 5 min later, I'm telling myself again, right? It's okay. Catch yourself again.

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Colleen Avis: So my fellowship, awareness, space of what I'm saying to myself, someone else.

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Colleen Avis: I I think I think it's a lot of people. It's self talk. But you know, I think for someone else it could be. It could be something else, right? It could be a different set of subtle shifts. And and that will change right? That that will change. You will start to get to a place where oh, it feels a little bit better. I notice I'm not talking so unkindly to myself. I just said something nice to myself. Oh, my gosh, I'm proud of myself. Right? So okay, what else is going on, you know. Maybe I want to be a little bit more mindful about

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Colleen Avis: getting to the gym, and I'm hitting some low hanging fruit here. I know there's much deeper things that we could be talking about, but sometimes I think it's okay to just be on the surface and doing your best and finding the spaces that feel aligned.

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Natalie P.: Yep.

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Colleen Avis: But the big, big, big thing. It's oh, I'm supposed to be like this. How many people is it? I'm supposed to be like this. I'm supposed to do that, my dad said. This is supposed to be. It's supposed to be, or you know. No, no, no, no! Like how does it feel for you, and what are the steps we can take? Nobody took one step from here to here and got there. Everybody took a bunch of steps, probably some forward and back, and over and left and right, but eventually

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Colleen Avis: right, we can make our way, and with intention and with feeling and with curiosity and listening to ourselves. We can get pretty honed in on a subtle shift, or a small change, or an idea, or an intention to transform

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Colleen Avis: subtle shift just sounds kind of catchy. So that's why we call it that.

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Colleen Avis: and and lean more into what we're we're looking.

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Colleen Avis: Or ourselves. This is assuming we know what we want. But let's let's assume that for this moment.

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Natalie P.: Yeah, yeah, yeah, which

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Natalie P.: this is an invitation to start where you are.

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Colleen Avis: Yeah.

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Natalie P.: That's like. Like enough.

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Colleen Avis: Yeah, you're you are enough where you are. I think people are really smart.

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Colleen Avis: I think people.

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Natalie P.: Heck, yeah.

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Colleen Avis: Mark.

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Colleen Avis: I think we're really really smart, capable beings. I think we are born abundant. I think we are born with all the information we know. And then all this stuff that people tell us, or we tell ourselves, because we interpreted something from some external source.

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Colleen Avis: Sticks to us like ooey gooeyness right? And it hides this brilliant, intelligent, abundant, divine, capable human being. And

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Colleen Avis: it's okay that you're there with a bunch of icky, sticky stuff stuck on you right? Like, okay, you mean we you can look at as icky stickier you can go. Oh, look at all the opportunities I have to transform.

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Natalie P.: Right.

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Colleen Avis: And start peeling one.

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Colleen Avis: Yeah. So let me look.

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Colleen Avis: Put some music on.

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Natalie P.: The.

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Colleen Avis: Funny way to look at it. I think right, because it's not often how we look at it. And for 30 years I looked at. You know the trauma I talk about all the time is like, Oh, that happened to me, and oh, my God! I act this way because that happened, you know, and it took a lot of subtle shifts to to move from a sense of abandonment and victimization to oh, thanks for doing that man work hard on something, and I feel really I like myself

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Colleen Avis: myself. I didn't always like myself, you know.

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Colleen Avis: It's possible. It's possible. Yeah.

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Natalie P.: Yeah, Hallelujah.

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Natalie P.: So this conversation is deeply aligned with something personal to me.

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Natalie P.: We talk about low hanging fruit. I want to take us on

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Natalie P.: just a just a quick, deep dive.

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Natalie P.: I'm a as you are, lead author, badass. Launching part of another expert collaboration called Shopman heart. We are the ones we've been waiting for. Shout out to Stephanie, Jeremy and

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Natalie P.: Jorge, and the whole cast of co-authors. It's a book filled with wisdom from healers and seekers and guides, they actually went down to Peru. I stayed back and joined remotely. But my own chapter is chapter 26, and it dives into my journey of

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Natalie P.: revisiting and healing my womb space

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Natalie P.: just like physical spaces. I have come to

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Natalie P.: 50 years into it. I couldn't have done like right early. No, I'm not talking about my womb space, but

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Natalie P.: there was some seeding going on for sure, 50 years into this life on this planet. I'm

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Natalie P.: seeing my womb space as sacred as a place where creation

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Natalie P.: is held just as much as trauma lineage like this is a place it's it. It became a space for me, a very sacred space for me, and it's changed everything since recognizing it and actually

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Natalie P.: spending time

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Natalie P.: healing it. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on how our inner environments you've touched on it briefly like, if there's 1 thing in one area.

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Natalie P.: your car's messy, it's messy under your bed, there's chances are. But can you just have you

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Natalie P.: like? Are those the most? The low hanging fruit? Are those the typical ones? Talk about the inner spaces, and how this connection plays out more in your work.

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Colleen Avis: Are we talking about in your language, of just make sure your human constructing here? Right? Are we talking about the soul? Are we talking about the inner energies, kind of the undefined.

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Natalie P.: I'm talking about my second Chakra. That.

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Colleen Avis: Oh, literally, okay, okay.

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Colleen Avis: yeah, it's so it's interesting. You're bringing this up because, I was just on a podcast. Talking about my second Chakra bright orange sacral space. I had a hysterectomy 16 some odd years ago, and I was on with a prenatal expert talking about, you know, kind of what happens in that space. And I think

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Colleen Avis: you know I think this is really unique and intimate for everyone, because I look at

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Colleen Avis: our purpose, our inner voice, our inner wisdom as a big P. Purpose like big P. Purpose versus like a little P purpose. And I think what you're bringing me to is

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Colleen Avis: the things that I was saying. Kind of those low hanging fruits kind of like warm up the conversation. Right little P. Purpose things like my job, my son. Time on the you know. Time with you here. My, you know

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Colleen Avis: disruption that I had today, 5 min before you and I were jumping on right. Those things need attention and have a little P purpose. It's not little because they're not valuable, right? They bring a lot of value. And there's a lot of plays a lot of times. It's external, right.

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Colleen Avis: Oh, no!

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Colleen Avis: The big P. Purpose to me is the divine reason. We're here like the soulful reason we show up. And to me that's all the inside. Some people I think they resonate, and that shows up more in the heart. Some of it's more intuition. Maybe some of it's an aura. Maybe some of it's even a God or nature or universe, right? So.

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Colleen Avis: And I I respect. I don't mean to leave any words out or or not respecting any of the words but from a big P purpose. I I think not only is it a soul's message, and the more alignment we can come into that big P purpose, the reason we're here

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Colleen Avis: the more some of that other subtle shift for the external things. They don't even need to happen.

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Colleen Avis: because you're you're so in alignment with what is right. So let me let me say this and see how this lands with you as you talk about your space, and I want to honor. I want to honor your book. So I'm just going to put a little PIN over here in that for the your lead author and and Stephanie, and the one you're in. I want to make sure we come back to that because

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Colleen Avis: I'm excited about it. I believe we choose to come here

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Colleen Avis: as a soul, our energetic self. Our true self chooses to come. They they it. I pick the parents. You're choosing an experience to come into this life here on earth and experience and learn things so that you can evolve while you're here and go back out into the energetic world, the energetic space with more. Now maybe you live another life somewhere else, or another dimension, or maybe you come back here to Earth, or whatever. But that to me, is where we're in real alignment with our big P.

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Colleen Avis: So you find it in like a sacral space.

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Colleen Avis: right? That's kind of where you would say I tend to find mine in my root, Chakra. I often feel like I need to be. My purpose is around a ground.

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Colleen Avis: you know, and and am I? I know when I'm in my best alignment that I'm grounded. So this morning book launch I was like a windmill. It's like, you know, energies all over the place, and I went, wait a minute. It's okay to be a windmill. It's okay to have all of this energy channel it in. I went outside. I stood with my feet barefoot on the ground. I lifted my face to the sun I breathed in the sunshine, in the cold air. I was like, please ground me. Don't take this energy from me. I want it, but

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Colleen Avis: place it in a funnel and on a channel for me where I can actually leverage it, use it, support others all the things.

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Colleen Avis: So when I think about the internal work to me, it goes back to a more soulful place that says.

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Colleen Avis: like this is gonna sound simple. But who am I?

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Colleen Avis: Who? Who am I like not? Who am I? Colleen avis? I'm a mom, I'm a husband. I'm not a husband. I'm a wife, I'm a dog. But

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Colleen Avis: why am I here? What is the shape of my puzzle piece

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Colleen Avis: that fits in? If everybody else was being their honest puzzle piece

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Colleen Avis: which it's hard to find. Sometimes, right.

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Colleen Avis: People

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Colleen Avis: are working on that for themselves. But where is that? So that snaps in so life is in

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Colleen Avis: flow. Life is in harmony.

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Colleen Avis: and we come into this world perfectly divine and clear like that. We're like a clean dish towel. It's like Whoa, white, crispy linen right? And then the world makes it wrinkly and dirty, and then we use our tools, our subtle shifts, and our practices to kind of dip that dish, towel into like the universal, like well, of truth.

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Colleen Avis: Alright.

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Colleen Avis: that your practices start to clean that dish, towel off in a way so that you can return to that, that wholeness, space.

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Natalie P.: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's

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Natalie P.: it is the. There's the long haul work.

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Natalie P.: There's the, you know this. There's the subtle

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Natalie P.: every day, you know, there's the long haul commitment to well-being. I think that there's

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Natalie P.: you know, just a a beautiful thing to be said around, you know, calling things sacred, and really taking the time to

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Natalie P.: become aware of what matters to you.

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Natalie P.: This all boils down to self awareness. And you said earlier, this is all. Assuming that you know what you want to do like right? There's things that have to be in place, but that

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Natalie P.: we can take this I was visiting with my my speaking coach earlier. If we can take, if it's almost like old, not old, they're still it's math.

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Natalie P.: I sucked at it. I didn't suck. I need to stop that story, but.

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Colleen Avis: Well done!

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Natalie P.: Yeah, right.

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Colleen Avis: There's a little show.

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Natalie P.: We if we have, if if it's a b and C, and we have a B and C, we can figure out B.

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Colleen Avis: Yeah.

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Natalie P.: So there's.

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Colleen Avis: You're talking about algebra. Okay?

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Natalie P.: Is that what it is?

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Colleen Avis: That's algebra. But sure, that's good.

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Natalie P.: My 16 year old. If he actually watch this, he would be mortified right now.

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Natalie P.: I'm fully on cringe, but that to me is

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Natalie P.: some of this like it. It's all there's a cocktail to go about doing all of this. You know this work, this self awareness, this. And there's pieces. And there's puzzles and and and and sacred spaces and subtle shifts are part of a it's like a mint. It's a fitness strategy, right? It's it's a part of of taking care of yourself like you would.

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Natalie P.: You know your physical, your physical well-being.

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Natalie P.: I think it's it's also a chance to.

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Natalie P.: you know. Show up for yourself, and and you know, think about

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Natalie P.: places that you. You would like a little extra love, a little pep in your step, a little nod from your family, a little bit like, ask for what like? Actually ask for what you need, or, you know, like the possibilities are endless. I just so I'm I'm super excited for you. I'm I'm excited for this.

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Natalie P.: you really have a movement that's

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Natalie P.: that's erupted with with your book. And you have

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Natalie P.: some absolutely amazing stories inside with some beautiful people. I'm I'm really excited for you.

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Colleen Avis: I do. I we we do. I, we do. Yeah, and thank you. I I what I love, what I'm hearing you say. I think what I'm hearing you say right is

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Colleen Avis: what what one's sacred space is is going to be unique to them.

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Colleen Avis: And in order to find that you have to be really honest with yourself.

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Colleen Avis: And so the 3 questions that I like to think about or offer to people.

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Colleen Avis: Who am I?

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Colleen Avis: What do I want?

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Colleen Avis: Not, I mean you can want a car, but I mean, what do I want? That would fill me with joy and happiness

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Colleen Avis: and a more complete sense of self.

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Colleen Avis: And then what is my purpose? My big P. Purpose like.

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Colleen Avis: what am I here to learn? Why did I choose this

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Colleen Avis: right? I ran into this the other day I ran into a situation where I was like, oh, God! This is an old stinking story, an old wound. I would typically just go victim phase on it I'd be like, well, it's because she did that to me, you know, and I would go. And that's easy, right? It'd be really easy. Just be like, well, because that happened to me, and I just wanted to tell these old stories, and I'm like Dang.

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Colleen Avis: That is not the reason I'm here. Yes, that happened, and that happened to show me that I need to be better at boundaries, or, which is definitely one of the things that was coming from that. And funny enough the universe was showing it to me in 84 ways that day.

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Colleen Avis: and it didn't look like that. But when I stood back. I was like, Oh, yeah.

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Colleen Avis: that's that's me playing a victim. That's me not speaking up for myself. That's me not saying I don't like Italian restaurants again. I don't want to go there. That's me choosing not to go ground myself, because oh, I know how to ground myself. I'll just take a few seconds or 2 I can. I can be grounded without the without.

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Natalie P.: And right.

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Colleen Avis: You're doing it, because this is what I do. So I know. No, that's Honky, donk you. I have to show up and go do that right.

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Natalie P.: Honky, Donk.

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Colleen Avis: Honky donk.

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Colleen Avis: You know I don't know

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Colleen Avis: from upstate New York. What do you want? But right? So it's like, who am I? What do I want? What is my purpose? Again, subtle shifts, basic questions, not easy.

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Colleen Avis: because it means you have to really look.

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Colleen Avis: You have to really look and be honest with yourself, and you go, and you know what colleen you chose to play a victim for 30 years.

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Colleen Avis: I think you know in this book I write

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Colleen Avis: the line. God! It was like the it hit me when I wrote it.

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Colleen Avis: and it said, your father abandoned you once.

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Colleen Avis: and you abandon yourself for 30 years.

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Natalie P.: Hmm.

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Colleen Avis: Oh, my God! Still like gives me goosebumps when I think about that like he left one time.

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Colleen Avis: And I left myself over and over, and over and over, and that man as much as one does not expect a father to leave someone or to abandon this is all internal stuff, right? This is all needing to be grounded for me.

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Colleen Avis: That's not fun. And one would expect that someone might struggle a little bit with that for a while. 30 feels long. But whatever that's how long it was for me, right.

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Colleen Avis: And I think to myself, now, wow!

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Colleen Avis: Every time I run into that feeling of abandonment or left out, or I'm not enoughness to fit in. That is another opportunity for me to go.

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Colleen Avis: This is not the story I'm telling myself.

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Colleen Avis: I turned the page on that. And I

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Colleen Avis: I'm going to look at this as a lesson to remind myself that. Oh, yeah, that kind of hurt a little bit. I'm not going there. I'm going this way. Now, what is this way? I don't know. I got to think about that. I have to reflect. And right? So that's an inside job. That's a what's my purpose. And that's what these books are about. I

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Colleen Avis: I am here to learn how to be compassionate, kind to myself. Seen, I'm learned. I'm here to use my voice. These are things I know, that are part of my key purpose. So I can offer a platform

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Colleen Avis: where other people can do that too. Right? We often say and look for what we need through our own words and expression. Then I get to double down work on that right? So I think that that knowing of that inside job information, whether it's in your root shocker or your heart.

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Colleen Avis: Wherever is

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Colleen Avis: that that key that turned for me about a decade or so ago was like, Okay, okay. Now I now I'm grounded in what my big P purpose is here and now, if it's not aligned with that, it is a hell frigging, honky Dock.

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Natalie P.: You know.

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Colleen Avis: Right? It's like, yeah.

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Natalie P.: Yeah, I still mess up. By the way. But yeah.

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Colleen Avis: Yeah.

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Natalie P.: With awareness. Yeah, check back in. Forgive Grace.

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Colleen Avis: I have a friend, I have a inventory.

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Colleen Avis: Commend.

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Natalie P.: Torn teacher, Grace, Grace, Grace, he says, Grace, Grace, Grace.

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Colleen Avis: and we and we do have some amazing like.

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Colleen Avis: 1st of all, all 3 books there's not one author that doesn't have a purpose, a story, a reason, a tool?

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Colleen Avis: That hasn't elevated mostly mostly because for a very simple reason, how many people are actually telling the truth

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Colleen Avis: about their own lives.

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Colleen Avis: These people have said, I will not only put my dirty laundry out, and stand naked on the edge of the world, as I like to say they put it in a book they're like. This is how brave I am. I want you to know that you can be vulnerable and survive and heal and feel better, because I want you to know that you're not alone. You can come with.

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Natalie P.: Yeah.

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Colleen Avis: No, you can try this too.

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Natalie P.: Yeah, yeah, dip a toe.

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Colleen Avis: To stip it out, but to make a subtle shift.

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Natalie P.: Just make a subtle shift.

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Natalie P.: Make one little one. Yeah, I mean.

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Colleen Avis: Can we? Can we go back to your book for a second.

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Natalie P.: Sure.

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Colleen Avis: What'd you write about in your in your book? Give me a little more.

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Colleen Avis: We went internal, but then we kinda.

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Natalie P.: Yeah.

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Colleen Avis: Little bit up.

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Natalie P.: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Natalie P.: So it's called the love I could not carry.

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Natalie P.: My own story includes

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Natalie P.: includes, you know, early on in life. Just some. I'll call them

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Natalie P.: assaults on my own. I let some pretty significant boundaries get crossed of my own, and.

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Natalie P.: and, like you, had a hysterectomy ended up not being able to, you know, carry my son by a lot, but he's mine biologically, like all of these things that have rolled out losing my father to suicide like. There's just a series of of things throughout my life that have centered around my

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Natalie P.: my womb, space and

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Natalie P.: coming to a place finally in my life, in the spiral of my life, if you will, with the right guide, with a beautiful, another human that I trusted with the type of you know journey I was taking inward was to go in and

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Natalie P.: really

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Natalie P.: think back into that all those little places along the way, and realize that I was doing the best that I could.

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Natalie P.: I forgive myself. I have so much love for myself, and

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Natalie P.: to take the time then now, and to nurture that space, because since I've done this, it has turned into a I have.

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Natalie P.: The the creative energy that is flowing out of me is unstoppable. I I'm

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Natalie P.: I can't describe it. The transformation that's happened over the last you know, several

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Natalie P.: just months and several years. It's just yeah. So it's an arrival story if you will. Yeah. And it's an honor to share the pages with like you're saying just people that are like it. Just mind boggling stories and humans like these, real, accessible. These are not cool. This is these are human. You're human. Hi.

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Colleen Avis: Highly a human. This is.

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Natalie P.: Not woo. Woo! This is not woo, woo! Shit! That, you know, is $10,000, or else you can't get in, or it's none of that.

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Natalie P.: This is real life

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Natalie P.: shit really easy practices, super easy tools like just subtle shifts and nudges in your own favor. That's.

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Colleen Avis: Hmm.

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Natalie P.: All it takes like. Put your hand on your heart, and if that's all you do for the day is, give yourself a little squeeze. My work here is done.

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Natalie P.: Think of me when you do that I'm squeezing you, too. I am so squeezing you right

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Natalie P.: shit. We need this. We need love.

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Colleen Avis: I so appreciate you sharing about your story and you know about the

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Colleen Avis: a little bit of the the growth and and pain I think

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Colleen Avis: so often in our life, and I agree with you. Love 100%. Everything chunks up to love. I think so often in our lives.

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Colleen Avis: There's

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Colleen Avis: There's a feeling like, oh, no one will get it.

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Colleen Avis: I'm the only one, you know, and I really have come to believe.

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Colleen Avis: I don't know if there's any signs in this, I'll have to call my friend Brene Brown and ask her. But there, Brene.

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Natalie P.: Let me know what she says. Hey.

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Natalie P.: call call us call us that the thing that truly unites us.

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Colleen Avis: Is storytelling.

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Natalie P.: Hmm, Amen. Thank you.

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Colleen Avis: There's

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Colleen Avis: it's not the way the blood runs through the body. It's certainly not. If you're male or female, it's a it's.

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Colleen Avis: Are you willing to be in community through storing, storytelling. And and that means you telling your story. And it also means receiving someone else's

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Colleen Avis: by listening. Yes, not not like, I'm going to listen to this so that I can then say, I, too, had that, or, Oh, yeah, my brother's uncle's dog one time. No, no, it's okay to. I mean, those things are sometimes okay. You're at lunch with girlfriends or guy friends or whatever. And you're going to, of course, of course, of course, but in the in the space of creating a sacred wholeness for people, it's

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Colleen Avis: listen.

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Colleen Avis: feel, pay attention, care right like. There's so much to learn in that what? This is very selfish project, you know I get.

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Natalie P.: Right.

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Colleen Avis: Hang out and talk to these amazing human beings right? There's not

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Colleen Avis: They're they're normal people, we we all are but normal people who who sometimes will say to me, Oh, I don't! I don't really know what I'm let me see who's on here right now.

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Natalie P.: Gosh! I haven't.

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Colleen Avis: Yeah, yeah, there's somebody on here. He knows who he is. Who said, I don't even know. I don't even know if I have a story, what you're asking me to write. What would I even write about?

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Colleen Avis: Ha! Isn't that the greatest? And then you get to sit with that person.

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Colleen Avis: and let them tell you elements and pieces of themselves, and get curious and listen. And then all of a sudden, over a period of time, they go. Oh, my gosh!

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Colleen Avis: And that's what I think is under the sticky, icky stuff. It's something that says, well, your story is not worth it. Your story.

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Colleen Avis: But it's there that you go. That that's who you are. That's your puzzle piece. That's why you're here. That's why you're amazing that. Yeah. So I really believe that the power of storytelling and what you just shared with us is like probably one of the best gifts we can give each other.

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Colleen Avis: I like to talk, and I like to make comments and stuff too. And so I'm still learning to be like a really really good, great, deep listener when I'm in like regular conversation, not just put on like the coaching hat.

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Colleen Avis: But I I'm hopeful. I mean, there's 80 or 8 8 billion people in the world. So there's a lot of books.

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Natalie P.: There's a lot of books, a lot of a lot of people, and just a lot of I call them our necks of the woods. Our.

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Natalie P.: you know, corners that we have to. We have to tend, and if enough of us are tending, our circles are overlapping. And we're right. It's it's a very very communal effort that's going on here, and and not a minute. Too soon. It's been going on and growing. It's been going on for ages, and it's yeah,

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Colleen Avis: I. This has been an incredible conversation, as I'm known to say, let's land this plane. For those.

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Natalie P.: Safely for those listening. Where can they buy sacred spaces and follow your work? Please.

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Colleen Avis: Yeah. So today, tomorrow, forever and ever. Now, Amazon, thank you for asking has sacred spaces. There are 3 volumes of the book, the one that we have published today, and we would love, love. Love. Your support on is Volume 3. It looks like this.

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Natalie P.: Beautiful.

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Colleen Avis: Yeah, a lot of amazing things. And then you can always reach me. My my website is colleen avis coaching

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Colleen Avis: dot com.

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Colleen Avis: I love connecting with people like there's a little thing that says, Come on, Connect, and I'm like, Really, please just, and they're like, I don't even know why I would call or talk to someone. I don't care.

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Colleen Avis: I actually.

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Natalie P.: I have that in my comment in my, you know book a call. I'm like I could. I don't care. You don't have to have a reason.

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Colleen Avis: That's how we connected.

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Colleen Avis: We literally sat down and we went. Why are we here? Do you remember.

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Natalie P.: Well, Laura introduced us. Hey! Shout out Laura, brave healer productions.

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Colleen Avis: So, yeah.

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Natalie P.: I say.

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Colleen Avis: That.

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Colleen Avis: Yeah. But we didn't know what we were doing.

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Natalie P.: No, no, this has all transpired over the last several weeks, and just bubbling up to to to go and

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Natalie P.: learning as we go, and just absolutely gorgeous works in progress. So thank you for

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Natalie P.: sharing your day with all of us that are listening in on my, my! Think out loud with me. Live episode.

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Colleen Avis: Isn't it so good? Anyone listening? Think out loud. It's so brilliant, that's all we're like. There's no script here. Just think out loud.

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Natalie P.: You know it was. It's boy. It

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Natalie P.: saved my life to start doing it.

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Natalie P.: That and curiosity. It was like I got to get this out of my like. I'm answering my own questions. What is the freaking point here? And I'm not going anywhere, so I need to like I need. And my client and friend. Good friend, I've known him forever. He was like, Will you just go start the podcast, like he was coaching me through, not really coaching, but just like

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Natalie P.: Rip.

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Colleen Avis: No, I'm like.

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Natalie P.: Go, go, get over it, go do it. And so I finally like you can hear. Think out loud with me. You can hear it develop over the course of 60 episodes like the early me. I'm scared. I'm so scared and I'm I'm mixed. You can hear it in my voice.

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Colleen Avis: Sure.

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Natalie P.: And I

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Natalie P.: I welcome those early episodes like this is my transformation. Right? Think out loud with me. All of this is

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Natalie P.: is is healing. It's my yeah. And and being here, it's brought me to this and and the rewards of

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Natalie P.: just being who I'm meant to be, and you being who you're meant to be. It's just yeah, it it creates magic. So I appreciate you.

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Colleen Avis: I would argue. Your 60th episode was a was a number of subtle shifts that were leaning into fear, that have brought you to this place right? And that's the exact point of what we were starting with today. And

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Colleen Avis: you're you're magnificent. And I'm so grateful that you've had us on. And for everyone that's in this book, and all the sacred spaces authors to to have a platform where we're seen or heard, you know. I wish I had time to name all 70 of them, I just, you know, try to speak on behalf of how grateful I am for all of them, and for your time letting us, you know.

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Colleen Avis: do a little sacred spaces, you know.

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Natalie P.: Single.

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Colleen Avis: Yeah.

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Natalie P.: That you need a sacred spaces jingle.

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Colleen Avis: I know we have a great community. So everyone's welcome. Yeah.

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Natalie P.: Yeah, beautiful. Well,

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Natalie P.: all that we've talked about here, all the links will be in show notes, and thank you to those of you who have joined me, live on all the cameras we have going for your patience and your giggles, and just listening in, as we said.

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Natalie P.: listening is a really important skill, but also because time is valuable, and where you invest it is.

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Natalie P.: it's a it's a result of your focus. So

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Natalie P.: yeah, we'll leave it at that. So if today's conversation has sparked something in you, don't let it stay in your head for Pete's sake, share it.

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Colleen Avis: Stuck.

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Natalie P.: Thinking of thinking out loud. Send, you know. Send this episode to a friend, start a conversation, create a space for yourself. To reflect.

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Natalie P.: Healing is a ripple effect, and we are all in this together. You all have been listening to think out loud with me. This is called the end role where we challenge the way we think, embrace curiosity and make space for real conversations. If you loved this hit like, follow subscribe whatever your little platform calls it. I would love to fuel the algorithm of love in our

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Natalie P.: own confident and subtle and positive ways. Be grateful, be kind, and until next time stay curious and keep thinking out loud. Bye, everyone.

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Colleen Avis: Thank you.