E56: TOLWM + Greg x Micro-Dosing for Chronic Pain

To each their own. But until you experience any length of chronic pain, it is quite difficult not to judge someone who is living day in and day out in physical and mental despair and what lengths they go to in search of relief. "Pain will drive you to try things," says my guest, Greg.

Greg just finished his first full year of micro-dosing and realizing complete relief from a near life-long struggle with chronic pain. His resume of injuries, accidents, surgeries, procedures, and attempts at relief commenced at the age of 4 when he was flung from a horse. Having kicked an opioid addiction and finally being informed even the most drastic original last option of spinal fusion and losing 50-75% of the motion in his back was NOT going to work, Greg was desperate.

This 67-year-old, well-spent rancher with xrays that make doctors pause, decided to try microdosing. Today, Greg calls himself "living proof" that how the body processes pain can be rewired with the help of such alternative remedies as psilocybin mushrooms and other psychedelics.

Greg and I visit about his simply astounding journey, the lessons, some particulars, the non-negotiables, his new life, and what the future of pain relief might look like if we open our minds to the idea of psychedelics.

And careful! Check your bias on the label. This isn't about spending your day baked. In fact, if you knowingly have that bias, put both earbuds in and listen.

Neither Greg nor I are in a place to tell you to micro-dose. Serious research, guidance, awareness, self-inventory, and continued patience are highly suggested as the next steps in understanding micro-dosing as a physical and mental health alternative.

There are over 40M in the U.S. alone struggling with back issues that have some degree of associated 'severe' pain.  It's a new year of new ideas and new invitations to consider, and there's someone out there who needs to hear this.

Send me your thoughts. I'd love to hear them.

RESOURCES:
Greg mentions The Bonati Institute, where he had a procedure that gave him complete relief. He also mentions the University of Michigan's M-PsyC Research Department. Here is a recent article from Vox that is valuable. Psychedelic Spotlight News is a source to investigate.

#chronicpain #suicide #microdose #painrelief #psilocybin #mentalhealth #openmind #alternativemedicine #plantmedicine #depression #ptsdrelief #psychedelics #deregulateplantmedicine #thinkoutloudwithme #bloomstruck #toeachtheirown #backpain #neckpain #chronicbackpain #painmedication #alternativepainmedicine 

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Transcript

Natalie P.: Hello, beautiful humans! You are here to think out loud with me. I'm Natalie Petersen, casting in from my little neck of the woods in Northern Colorado to you in yours, wherever and whenever that might be.

this digital adventure is my way of turning years of internal chatter, wondering, silent suffering, and physical and mental close calls into enlightening and empowering conversations with others.

The 0 card in a traditional Tarot deck is the fool. It can be placed nowhere in the sequence or everywhere in the sequence. It's about freedom, it's about intuition. In my own translation. I am the fool. 

It's a goal, actually an aspiration, a reality that I aim to embrace. See, the fool is always present. She doesn't know what's going down and doesn't quite fit in because of her naivete. And what a relief that is

In my interpretation! The fool is representative of truth, being relevant to the individual, neither right nor wrong.

It's not about good or bad. It's just true.

As humans in our higher, logical, conditioned way of thinking, we want to judge, categorize, and control everything when everything is under control, we think we are calm.

and so we create rules to follow, to help us corral those folks who stray outside who might color outside our lines. These lines or boundaries.

some of them are substantial, like border walls, no entry. These are the rules.

other boundaries sway. Far other end of the spectrum are subtle. They're personal little shock collars and tisk tisks.

We are so very conditioned to judge, categorize, and attempt to control, that we miss out on opportunities for expansion, for leveling up, for deeper understanding, greater awareness, appreciation, connection, abundance.

sovereignty, sovereignty, and the fool are one and the same in my interpretation.

sovereignty and the fool are beyond the ego, safety and compliance zones. When we are sovereign, we risk being the fool, the villain rejected out of bounds illegal. Even we say, this is my truth, regardless of the consequences. And then we dance

and we celebrate, and we rise up and we heal, and we hold ourselves, and we expand and we become, and we rest in our knowing and acceptance. That what is right for me is mine alone.

Getting right with ourselves may mean we have to break rules and cross boundaries and shirk cultural norms. The angst of this is what has always shut me down

until now. And interestingly, my circle has expanded to include others who have hit this space of self-truth and transformation. Especially lately.

My community is growing and it's expanding. And I'm being given the opportunity to have meaningful deep conversations about what happens when you embrace the fool. when you embrace your own fool and become your own glorious, intuitive, generous, expanded version of yourself.

And that's why I'm here today with my guest, Greg. Greg is piping in from his home office with his headphones on and ready to rock and roll. We've connected, Greg and I, through a mutual friend, Nancy, and I am so incredibly grateful for this connection. It's it's next level for me. 

Greg has experienced and is experiencing, a calling to speak out and to use his voice to, and his experiences, and the story of his experiences to inform others who, for whatever their story is - they're living in pain, and the pain is mental. The pain is physical. The pain is a combination likely of all of the above, because frankly physical, creates mental and the other and the other way around, they're so intricately connected. But I have the absolute honor of connecting with Greg in a space where he's

using his voice to connect with others that may just need to hear this. Just need to hear that there's hope.

Greg. I would love for you to say Hi to listeners, and let's get this conversation underway.

Greg: Thank you, Natalie. I'm so glad to be here and and hello to all your listeners. And hopefully, today I can shed some light on some alternatives that I've found that really, in a way, saved my life. Without a doubt.

Natalie P.: Yeah.

Greg:  I've had chronic pain. Well, I'm 67 years old, and I've had chronic pain since around the age of 4.

And it's I had a joint injury shattered an elbow, and it's I've had 6 surgeries on it over the years, and that was the start of my struggles with physical pain.

Natalie P.: At 4 years old.

Greg:  Yes, and and the elbows been chronic most of my life up until just very recently. Has it been pain free? And on top of the elbow. I've had approximately 20 other major surgeries on joints 3 on a shoulder, 3 on a knee, a knee replacement, you know, just on and on. It's it's

It was something I grew up with, and just it was a norm, something you accepted the pain you just lived with it Tylenol aspirin. It's about, you know, all they gave young persons back in those days.

and by the time I was out of high school. I already had 2 knee surgeries, a shoulder hernia the.

And then I started higher education, and my back was feeling. One day I just woke up and it was killing me.

So I went to the Health Department and they X-rayed it, and there was already some major curvature starting in my lower back.

And this is at the age of 19.

So right from that point on, I knew I had back issues and they're gonna be with me the rest of my life

and then Cervical started in when I was about 35, and it got to the point to where the only time I wasn't in physical pain was when I was asleep in severe, you know, 5 and 6 7 level

every day from the minute you woke up it. I was desperate. I was I I was still working, but I work because it took my mind off the pain instead of sitting at home, you know suffering

and I probably saw anywhere from 8 to 10 orthopedic and neurosurgeons just on my cervical spine.

and they all had one solution fuse my whole neck, and if you're not familiar with what fusion is they go in there and put some metal objects so you can't move that joint any longer, and that's a lifelong process. You're stuck.

so I'd lose 50 to 75% of my neck motion if I did that.

And I was desperate and I wasn't gonna let him fuse me. I just had it. It just something was telling me. Don't let them do this. So I got frustrated one day and got on the Internet and started researching. This is back in the early 2 thousands 2,002, 2,003. And

I was a candidate for a new disk replacement.

And you go in. There's a blind study. And I was gonna do that except in the blind study. Half the people don't get the disc replacements. They just get fused.

and you don't know until after the surgery.

So that was my biggest option to relieve my pain. And that was a total failure.

So back on the Internet, researching doctors other.

And I found a physician in Florida, the and I'm and I don't mind mentioning his name is is called is Dr. Bonatti, the Benati Institute.

and he pioneered orthoscopic surgery in cervical and lower back where they just go in there with a an inch very small instrument with a camera on it, and they cut off

any tissue or scar tissue hitting the nerve

pretty profound new Con, you know that stuff was not out there, and it was, and I called my doctors here at home, and they all said that would not work

absolutely not, and to make a long story short, went to the Benati Institute. He said, absolutely he could help me.

I did 3 procedures down there over 2 years, and that was 20 years ago, and I'm I'm still pretty much pain free in my neck.

So that was a big leap for me. But.

All the other I learned from there that don't accept necessarily what all the doctors are telling, you know. Thank for yourself.

Research don't understand what they're telling you. They're gonna do to you. Because fusions are so serious.

At the Bonatti Institute, 75% of his patients down there were because of bad fusions.


Natalie P.: Really, and they were still in horrible pain.


Greg:  So that was just one avenue in between all this other surgeries.

I was a physical guy worked outdoors a lot. I loved it. I was also an office guy, so I had a combination of both.

you know, and as you get older, arthritis starts kicking in and joints just they don't get better. They just start getting, you know, the physical pain just starts getting worse

And then my back really started kicking in.

And that's from horses and just physical. Just you wear out

and last is almost a year ago, December 15.th

I was hurting so bad about starting 3 or 4 months before that that I couldn't hardly walk a hundred feet without just almost falling to my knees in pain.

I went to one of the top neurosurgeons in the state I live in, and he takes all the hard cases.

nd mine was, I thought, would be one of those cases. Well, after Mris, and meeting with him, it was his

cure was 2 7 hour surgeries fuse 8 levels my lower back from S. All the way up to la, and lose 50 to 75% of the motion in my back.

You know, going to the restroom would have been difficult.

That's how bad you know. Loss of motion and twisting, and I went

one last meeting before the surgery, and that was on December 8.th Last year. He looked me in the eyes, said Greg. I just don't think I can help you with the pain during this surgery. It's it's too severe.

and I just have a feeling that you just it wouldn't relieve. Do what you need it to do.

and I really respected him for that. I mean,

Natalie P.: Hmm.

Greg:  And so I went home in delusion of what to do. And I called Nancy our friend Mutual friend.

And discussed alternatives, and she suggested Microdosing with Psilocybin and possibly with Lsd.

Well, I I got on the Internet, started researching and University of Michigan in their Pain department, had done research with mice. with the combination of Psilocybin and Lsd.

And had extraordinary results on pain relief.

I don't have time for the FDA to approve all this stuff. I I was desperate.

So I took the leap of faith and let me clarify Microdosing. It's not getting high, it's not feeling. It's it's a low dose that you may feel just a little bit of relaxation or euphoria, but it's a lot less than drinking one beer or something like that.

I mean, it's very minor. And if you're feeling much, you're doing too much. So it's like taking an aspirin or a Tylenol. Actually, because you don't have any side effects

and this. And I can't even begin to describe the the pain I was in. It was 100% of the time.

and I was just absolutely desperate for solutions and I skipped a part here

For years doctors have been putting me on opiates

to try to relieve pain, and and after a week or so. They just don't seem to do much. Back in the early 2 thousands they put me on oxycontin or my neck pain. 3 times we got up to 3 times a day 80 milligrams a day.

Natalie P.: Goodness.

Greg:  Yeah, it was. And I kept looking at the doctor, saying, This isn't helping so. And they kept upping and upping, and I was finally, I can't do this anymore. But

so basically, I was addicted to oxycontin. And by chance, I did a you, me 23 genetics

And it came back that my body doesn't synthesize opiates after 4 or 5 days. It just doesn't work so I quit cold turkey. And and it was. It's horrible. So I'm never getting back on opiates like that again. They don't do me any good after 4 or 5 days quit them, so I didn't have anything out there that would work.

Tylenol aspirin wouldn't touch the pain.

The so I started Microdosing. I combined Lsd and and Psilocybin magic mushrooms and within the 1st 48 h my back pain was almost gone completely.

Oh. it had bothered me most of my life every morning was a you know it was a challenge just stretching out, and so you could get going. I was just I couldn't.

I was in just awe now. I I just couldn't believe this could happen especially that quick.

And I had a lot of other aches and pains. Elbow shoulders. Neck was still kind of a little sore here and there, and the elbow especially, and a little background on the elbow. They had to do a special. unique surgery that's not very common back in the day Mayo clinic recently wanted me to come in, and they wanted to do a research paper on it because of the flexibility I still have with it.

but it's been a pain, and I'd had 2 recent surgeries for nerve damage in there, and it was just swollen and killing me.

It took about 3 weeks of this Microdosing, and the pain completely left my elbow.

Just it's gone

The swelling was still there, and I couldn't get rid of the swelling, and once again, Nancy, God bless her! She goes! I heard lion's mane mushroom helps hi inflammation.

I put that in my drink, and in 3 mornings that swelling had completely vanished in my elbow.

It was gone, and has not returned, so mushrooms have been very good for me.

Natalie P.: I would say so.

Greg:  What's that?

Natalie P.: Say so.

Greg:  Yeah, and I'm I'm just so overwhelmed at the results hat I've had with this. I just felt the I've just been compelled to let people know it's worth a try.

For some people it it may not be for others, but it's an alternative out there that people need to be aware of.

And I've continued my research. Natalie John Hopkins doing lots of studies on Physilocybin, Lsd. Mdma. University of Arizona University of Michigan.

So there's a lot of interest in higher education right now, and exploring this

Yeah. The as far as I know, I haven't found any studies as far as a group of physicians or pharmaceuticals probably aren't gonna be interested in this because they can't patent it. And they they'll push opiates versus microdosing with psilocybin and Lsd. which to me, just doesn't make sense anymore.

Natalie P.: Opiates are horrible in the body.

Greg:  And I've had horrible run with them over time because you you keep thinking. That's your only alternative.

Natalie P.: Yeah, let's I, wanna I wanna I wanna dig into if if we can, just for a minute like the the physicalness of all of this I like, can I? Just I can't even imagine.

And the the mental pain that. and just being up in your head trying to

gosh, I mean like next level mind over matter like.

and be and and and digging into the very depths of yourself to try and just get up every morning.

and it's understandable how we try everything we're trying. We're trying everything to relieve us of pain that I mean chronic pain is.

It's it's hard to even put words around the mental. The mental struggle of chronic pain is is significant, and the the answers that we have

for it to numb. We're doing 2 things we're trying to numb not only the physical pain, but we're also trying to numb the mental pain of it. The anguish, the not having an answer not having a direction, not having relief, all of it. And it's a cycle that is incredibly hard to break.

Greg:  Oh, it is.

And I left out a probably a very important, not him important fact that the my best treatment for pain over my life was basically alcohol and that's really the only. And that was the only thing that worked consistently

and I've bounced back and forth on alcohol abuse and using it most of my life.

My! When I was 4 and 5 years old I had severe asthma. and we actually received house calls back in those days, and I still remember the doctor coming to the house, and his remedy for me was honey, lemon juice and whiskey.

So I started drinking at a very young age to relieve symptoms. And it it's been a battle for me but up of I've learned to do with pain without it, and that's

that was hard. And I and I was completely sober and not drinking for a number of years before I started the microdosing. And it it's the difference.

The Microdosing relieved the pain, but didn't make you numb and alcohol just numbs you to the point to where you you don't feel anything.

And and that's not a way to live. I mean, we all know that whoever's had issues with alcohol. It's it's but

you you're frustrated in life because you get to that point. Pain wise, and everybody has a pain threshold.

I don't care who you are. When you reach that threshold you're gonna be grabbing for anything you can. And it's not your fault.

You're just trying to relieve the pain any way you can. And unfortunately, other things get involved, you know, marriage family kids drinking doesn't work well around that to a a nightly toddy.

You can.

It always comes into more.

It always does it. It got a little of the pain, but I need a little bit more in.

Frankly, it's what got me to sleep at night.

Natalie P.: Because it's very difficult sleeping when you're hurting.

Greg:  So I guess.

People that I think most people in life will have a battle with chronic pain at some point in time. It just seems like and people have so many different pain thresholds. What might not hurt me much might be just horrible for someone else.

and it's hard to tell someone about your pain. It really is, I mean, unless you've felt it and the severities of it. And you know, stubbing your toes, not what we're talking about. Here.

We're talking about stubbing your toe 24 HA day. You just keep stubbing it, and I I just my empathy goes out for anyone that I feel and see that are struggling with this. And for the listeners here after the Microdosing, I did tell my cardiologist, my orthopedic, my neurosurgeon and my Gp, what I was doing.

And after my lab results. And they saw my attitude, every one of them said, Don't stop.

Natalie P.: Hmm.

Greg:  Keep doing what you're doing, and that's off the record. Of course. But they're seeing it. They just because of their license and practices they had. They can't go into that area yet.

Natalie P.: well and and therein lies, you know, part of the the finding your own truth.

I mean we're. we're in especially when it comes to, you know, addiction and drugs and and rules, and and these things are, you know, not approved and and not studied, and this, that, or the other that we there's so many barriers to us, getting relief that may work. And and let me say, just for the record on the record that neither Greg nor I are

trying to diagnose or or suggest for anybody to just go out and start micro like this takes work. research, self-reflection, self inventory, guidance, trust in in other humans who have knowledge that

but I guess where I'm I'm sitting is that you know, as a culture we're we're conditioned to not try things because of the rules around them, and that this is this could be an opportunity for someone to realize life on a different level

and that you, with your example, your living experience, is just crazy. What you've been through

to get to a place where you can sit in front of me and say, I am pain. Free is just mind boggling. It's mind boggling, and so

absolutely give me more of that absolutely continue to press against the rules that would tell you.

This may be I like I'm I'm trying to describe

for me. Personally I am a rule follower. It it gives me anxiety, you know, to to think about getting in trouble. You know I'm the one. If if there's trouble going down, I will be the one that meets the cops. I'm outside.

Greg:  But all right.

Natalie P.: And I drive people crazy like. And so for me to break that conditioning to break that who I am in that space. That hyper, vigilant, you know, like, and and if it doesn't have a seal, then it's you know, and an approval and a check mark, and an FDA and a and a you know this, that, or the other that I can't touch it, but those are all human constructs, right and and beyond that is the is the truth for

us individually, and the truth for Greg and the truth for someone else. Listening may include some pretty crazy stuff.

Greg:  Yes.

Natalie P.: And isn't the alternative fantastic like? Look at you, and you're climbing a freaking fourteener.

Greg:  I did. I did that last July 20 second and I did that to prove to myself that this was really happening.

and I could do it. And to prove to my family and friends that this really worked.

And you can tell people you're not in pain. But I had to show them. And I climbed Mount Handy. It's a 14,000 foot pickup, they say, one of the easiest ones, but it wasn't easy for me, but it was strenuous, but I was the end of the day I was pain free

pretty much, and when I say pain free, I don't mean being numb or like when you're on opiates or alcohol.

you're you get a splinter in your finger, you stub a toe. It's gonna hurt.

It's the deep chronic pain that this is controlled and may go away. And in my research, too, that's it has something to do with rewiring your brain. on how you see and feel pain.

And it does, and it does it painlessly, I mean, and I know it's working for other people. A very prominent lady in the city I live in was having horrible, horrible cervical pain in her neck.

261
And I told her about this, and and pain will drive you to try things.

And it, and she was open to try it. So she did exactly the same regimen I was doing for 5 and a half weeks. She didn't see much results.

At the end of 5 and a half weeks her pain was just gone in her cervical area.

So everybody's gonna be a little different. But patience and give it a chance.

And what you were saying about take. I didn't do psychedelics in the sixties or seventies, or ever so it wasn't like I had a good or bad experience with them. I just hadn't had one. I just heard always the bad, you know, people going blind, and you know from everything I've read and heard no one has ever overdosed on Lsd. Or Psilocybin.

So it it's not a safety issue compared to alcohol at all.

Natalie P.: Right.

Greg:  Which is another big factor for me, because for centuries and really, millennias, alcohol has been the pain that everyone has used. That's been our go to.

If if I hadn't gotten to this position and I'm gonna be quite honestly, I just don't think I'd be here right now if I wouldn't have tried this microdose.

and that's the severity. And when I say the severity of the pain I was in at that time, it's it's off the charts when I say it's severe.

Ish emergency room. Kind of pain.

And and that's the level I was in, so I can't just can't overemphasize.

how this worked on my body, and I know it's working for other people because they've done some studies and and some and people are coming out now to say, Yes, this is helping.

Mentally, I think I'm sharper. I do. I think. The world's easier going for me now.

I like getting up in the morning for a change, you know, which is, I haven't for a long time, you know, when you hurt the 1st thing every morning of most of your life. It's not fun getting out of bed. You kind of don't want to go to bed sometimes.

cause you know what's coming in the morning. In a no. that there are. Just may they say, there's over 40 million people in the United States along with severe back issues.

Now just think, if this helped 1 million of those 40 million. what a difference that would make.

Natalie P.: 1 40.th

Greg:  Yes, just think about those 1 million people that would be pain free So I don't know that it's gonna work for everybody. I have no idea. I think somehow, some way it will. It may not be the way you think it should be working for you. But I can't overemphasize what you were saying earlier is you've got to step out of the box, you, you know. It's pretty much not legal in most of the United States.

Law. Enforcement's really not looking to get micro doses or any. So that's not never been a worry for me. And I'll I'll pay the fine, or whatever it's worth, every penny if it should come to that. And honestly, if if if I were to be arrested for using this stuff. It'd probably be the best thing for all people out there in pain, because they would. It would hit the news.

Okay?

And you know, so it might not be a bad thing but I don't want to scare people, and to thinking that you know you're gonna be a felon. which I don't think would be the case in 90% of the States out there.

But thank goodness, that Denver area has opened the gates to this and and made it an opportunity. MAPS is doing wonderful stuff in case your listeners MAPS is a psychedelic organization that researches and as an advocate I don't know how long I'll need to continue to microdose. When I hit the year mark

December 15, th I'm gonna give it a try to to just slowly back off and see if it's gonna be a permanent.

and what I've read it could very well be a permanent rewiring of the brain. So you're not going to have to do this, your entire life could be a very short stretch I've

cut a stop, maybe a week. and at the end of that week, several times I've tried that it starts coming back, but not the severity.

So I'm I'm hopeful that with time it won't be an everything everyday dose that I need.

Natalie P.: I keep going back to the mental part, because I think that's part of it that you're also Re. Yes, you're rewiring your brain to live without chronic pain, and in the vein of like Joe Dispenza. And and like that, we have the ability to heal ourselves if we give ourselves a chance, and that

that relief of of relieving yourself of chronic pain

is also just the mental relief that happens, and rewiring to not have that as a main focus of your every waking moment, even though you say that you enter a different place in your head. You know where you just get up and work, or you get up and do, and you just fight through it. It's still sitting there. You know what you're doing. You know that you're having to fight, to be there. And so your energy is.

Your energy is split always with chronic pain, as as much control as you think you have. I mean it is. It's it's there is no control of it. Right.

Greg:  Right.

Natalie P.: And so in that in that relief of the chronic pain, the relief of the mental focus of it.

What do you fill that vacuum. It leaves a vacuum on like.

If I'm not, it almost begs itself, begs the question of If I'm not my suffering, where am I? If I'm not my pain. What am I

right? I gotta figure out something else to do with this this focus that I've had for my entire freaking life.

Greg:  Right, absolutely the. And it's like a new life once you once you stop or reduce the chronic pain, you start to live again.

You start to feel you start to see a world in a in a different way my pain is still there. That's what people need to understand.

There's not a doctor in the world that could look at my Mris and say I shouldn't be in horrible chronic pain. and I'm not so

what I'm saying is, it doesn't cure at the spot of the pain. It's how your mind interprets the pain.

Natalie P.: Interprets the pain.

Greg:  And that has to be the only way this is working, and.

Natalie P.: Because your body is still. If we were to take an X-ray of Greg, we still have curvature. We still have all of just the elbow, like all of this, is there?

But your body is saying, I'm going to read this differently. and I am going to deliver

my I'm going to generate my art, my own. There's it's your own. It's a cocktail of your own medicine. It's it's a yeah.

Greg:  Yes.

Natalie P.: Fascinating.

Greg:  Well, it it just. There's no other way it could be.

You know you just, and I'm I'm living, walking proof

and the doctors that look at me and look have my X-ray right there, my MRI, just shake their heads. And so how can this be?

And I? It is because it's somehow pain is used to protect you. It's a survival part of your body to stop. You're hurting yourself. Don't move that arm or that leg until it's healed

and your body over. I I believe it does it over protects you.

And somehow this Microdosing is not letting that happen. It's letting that brain rewire that pain to where it's you don't need it for survival anymore. You don't need it to.

doesn't need to protect you anymore.

And that's kind of a loose term. But that's how I feel that that

upstairs somehow in in my cognits, it's saying, Okay, you don't.

You can pick up that pencil on the floor without hurting

without hurting. But the other thing, Natalie, I want to impress upon. I've also understood that that climb I did was a 1 time thing.

My body is messed up. I'm not 21 anymore.

And I have to respect my body, and that I can hurt myself again badly can do physical things I would like to do. I'm not running marathons. I'm

I've reduced it to being appreciative of my body, and I'm going to take care of it and hopefully live a lot longer.

and I'm getting that time period. I walk 3 miles a day. I try to.

I walk over to a local hospital and climb stairs 60, 70 flights a week, and so but I'm doing it slow. I'm walking. I'm not running.

I use bands no more heavy weights, just bands.

So it's a process I stretch every morning every night before I go to bed.

So it's just not the Microdosing. It's a process of reliving re.

How should I say, it's training your mind and body to work without pain without hurting it more.

And hurting it more is the fact that I want for me. Anyway, I just know I can't go lift a hundred 50 pounds, you know. I just shouldn't do that anymore with my back

and let someone else do it for you.

Natalie P.: Yeah, so.

Greg:  So it's not a cure off what I'm getting at, but getting rid of the pain, and is like I've been reborn, and I know you hear reborn a lot from people, but it's just remarkable. It truly is.

Natalie P.: I'm I am fascinated, and I think you know I I shared with you before we hit record that, you know, connecting with within the heart space for me. This just is

It's remarkable to meet someone who. What I experience of you is that the the freedom in your mind. I I guess that's gonna be my theme is once you have, you have rewired to free up that space in your mind that you are becoming

a new version of yourself that is compelled to speak up, that is, celebrating life. and that the Greg that was prior to our meeting was not available for this kind of connection.

The the the Greg I'm meeting now is like energetically more available. And that's beautiful. That's that to me, is the celebration you know, to to take from.

to take from your time on this planet the beauty of being alive and and celebrating, being alive, and and I'm imagining you walking your 3 miles, and

the the preciousness of every footstep and the like. Thank you.

Greg:  Yeah.

Natalie P.: Thank you for arriving here, and you could have given up. and and you flirted with with you know what?

No, thanks.

I I got a choice in this, and that's what it boiled down to is choice right? Every like the the. You very well could have made a choice to end it. And whether that was.

you know, taking your own life, it was drowning and drunk. It was getting whatever fill in the blank. The choice you made was to. I'm gonna go over here and check this out.

I'm gonna go give this a shot.

Thank goodness that you did. I'm I'm.

Greg:  Well, I was very fortunate to be around some people that guided me to the possibilities of this, and I was open to receive that. And I'm so glad I did. And and just, you know, not everybody's gonna be open to this. I have a number of friends, some that severe, severe pain that won't even think about it.

And and I just that's why I wanted to get this out to, to explain to people that to just open your mind and do your own research. Convince yourself that this might be something worth a try.

And I'm just hoping that it will work for a lot of other people, and I I from the universities and their studies, from depression to physical pain. They're all seeing very positive results.

Ptsd, with our military having phenomenal results with psychedelics.

Natalie P.: Yeah.

Greg:  And I wish they wouldn't call them psychedelics, because it just makes people automatically, you know, afraid of

there's so much more.

Natalie P.: Yeah, yeah, our conditioning gets in the way.

Greg:  It does, it does, and and just a a little bit of history. And I've tried to read a lot of about this.

The Greeks were doing this 1,500 years ago.

They were. It's been proven. They're finding it in the chalices and so forth, that of psychedelics still residues. And of course, the Incas and the Mayans, and and they were been using. So this has been around for thousands of years.

Natalie P.: Yeah.

Well, I I'm just. I'm really grateful to that. You, you know, trusted me with with your your story and your thoughts and

that this is the platform that you chose to to start speaking up and sharing with, and and I have 0 doubt in my mind that. There's at least one listener

Greg:  I'm glad for that.

Yeah, right? Yup, and that that's that's the.

Natalie P.: When I when I go, when I when I post, you know next episodes.

That's that's what I you know. When I hit post. It's like there's there's somebody out here that needs to hear this. There's somebody out there that needs to just tune in. And this is, if they don't listen to any of the episodes, but they just find one then they hit on it. Then then you and I will have done what we needed to do, and and and I I am one person, too, and I I really appreciate hearing this, and I and I hear you and I see you and I

celebrate your courage to to find your answer and to relieve yourself. I'm glad you didn't go anywhere. I'm glad you ended up here with me.

Right now in this present moment. So so thank you.

Greg:  Well, and thank you, Natalie. It's I'm just. I'm grateful for you, and giving me this opportunity to share a little bit on what helped me.

And this is how we're gonna get the word out.

Natalie P.: Yeah, yeah.

Greg:  We really are. And and I, I'm

I feel for everyone out there that has had to deal with with this kind of pain. Yeah. And there's lots of us

lot of us don't ever say a word. And that's the other problem. We we've got to speak out and find solutions.


Natalie P.: Yeah.

Yep.

Well, thank you. And thank you to those that are listening in. Thank you for thinking out loud with me and my friend Greg, today's guest. Given. How many choices you have to spend your time time being your most valuable asset. I'm honored that you've listened in until we visit again.

Go live with love and intention, and please, please

don't let anyone fuck with your flow big hugs, big love bye, friends.